A new direction

It has been some months since we last posted.

This was partly because we were unclear about which direction we were going and partly because we were a little disenchanted with the whole process of trying to have a baby.

Financially we were very hard hit by the failure of India.  All up there wasn't much change from $40k AUD. 

During the months waiting to see if anything would change in India, we decided to look at options domestically.  Having been lucky enough to have a close friend willing to be an egg donor here in Oz, we proceeded to get cost estimations from a number of Australian IVF clinics to see how much it would be to do "altruistic surrogacy".  If you think international IVF clinics are expensive, Australian clinics blow them out of the water.  Not to mention to the two tier pricing structure for infertile couples vs couples pursuing surrogacy!  And that's before taking into account any Medicare rebates, legislated counselling, legal fees and court costs.  Their profits also maximised by not allowing more than one embryo transfer at a time (not without significant reason to do multiple embryo transfer).  Nevertheless we continued to research with the final barrier being to find a willing surrogate.  This proved to be the most difficult part and eventual failure of us deciding to undertake surrogacy in Australia.  Despite the apparent "altruism" aspect of surrogacy in Australia (as commercial surrogacy in Australia is illegal in all states except the Northern Territory) our estimation of costs would have exceeded $60k.  Sadly, the only people making money out of surrogacy in Australia are the IVF specialists.  The selfless women doing all the hard work stood to gain very little - and in a number of cases, were actually out of pocket for doing someone else a "favour".

So we looked abroad again.  The US was still out on financial grounds as were a number of European countries only offering surrogacy services to married couples. So our final option - like most same sex couples - was now limited to Thailand.

In previous posts, we touched on concerns and our reluctance to go to Thailand mainly because of the influx of clients following the visa changes in India and the absence of IP protection afforded through legislation.  However, the visa situation in India has taught us that the situation around surrogacy can change quite quickly.  Given Thailand has a draft bill on the table, so to speak, we thought now is a good a time as any to move forward with our plans before we were pushed out of the market altogether.

We have chosen NewLife as our clinic.  They have a number of years' experience doing ART in India, Georgia and the Ukraine and a solid history of making IPs become parents.  So in November 2013 we, once again, embark on the surrogacy journey and head to Bangkok.  This time it will be in a country we're familiar with, a process we know all too well and have the benefit of hindsight to guide us on our way.  So far, the experience with NewLife has been entirely different than dealing with Surrogacy India.  The simple fact that we're not berated for asking questions and responses don't come from their receptionist is a good start.  The responsiveness is very good and their process and pricing structure appears far more transparent than SI's.  Here's hoping the next part of the journey goes just as well.

So here we go again.  Let's hope the second time around is far less disappointing than our first experience.

xx GBLC.

More than four reasons not to use Surrogacy India

Four is sometimes associated with luck - such as a four leaf clover.  In Chinese culture, the number 4 is considered unlucky.  And then there is the four elements of existence - earth, air, fire and water.

Whatever the significance of that number, today we got the results of our fourth attempt (third FET).

Once again, we received a negative result.  We're generally okay.  As you would expect, it is disappointing.  But surprisingly, it is a massive relief.  Why?  Let me explain.

Although it is easy to blame the clinic for negative results in a moment of emotionally fuelled disappointment, I can no longer overlook the glaring incompetence of dealing with this ART clinic - and let's use that term fairly loosely.  And just to clarify; I'm not necessarily assigning blame here - but I honestly believe that ART pregnancy is a combination of luck, fertility and professional medical intervention and assistance.  I think there are plenty of other clinics in India that provide this service better than SI.

For months I have posted about our journey, alluding to our struggle with trying to get pregnant, but never fully conveying or explaining about how difficult it has been working with Surrogacy India (SI).  Most of you out there will have been on a steep learning curve when it comes to understanding what everything meant when you received e-mails from your clinics explaining a test result of x or the endometrial lining is y thick.  SI provided little to no explanation of anything.  Of course I asked the interweb, but when asking medical questions directed to SI about certain results, the response from their admin staff (the doctors pretty much don't talk to you at all after you've signed up) was utterly abhorrent, usually incorrect and frankly quite reckless when running a business providing medical services.  Although I am not a clinician, I work in health and the information provided to clients by SI is disgraceful.  I recognise that we are not talking about the same levels of health care as Australia, but describing our experience with SI to a number of friends going through IVF in OZ was met with utter disbelief and profound sorrow for us.  Perhaps I was being overly dramatic?

To paint a further picture of the integrity of SI, the evidence:

1.  Surrogacy India pretty much outsource all of their IVF, embryology and imaging.  The latter is not unusual or unexpected - but the former came as a surprise to us after SI claimed during our initial investigation of clinics that they performed IVF "in our lab in Mumbai".  The fact is, it is not their Lab at all.  They outsource this entirely.  And buried in their contract they outline that they would not take any responsibility for third parties "including, but not limited to, the IVF lab.......".  Obviously this sparked confusion for us - particularly when presented with the written confirmation that they did everything "in our lab in Mumbai" - and how they could say that they don't take responsibility for what we are paying them to do.  After no fewer than 20 e-mails with their qualified (severe sarcasm when saying that word) legal team, did we manage to resolve the issue with GB's contract to make them take responsibility for actions of the IVF lab.  After negotiating this term with GB's contract it was near impossible to get the same passage changed in my (LC's) contract as the admin staff that were working in the "legal team" that week, were unaware of GB's contract as well as being unfamiliar with general legal terms or contracts.  This quality service was charged at $1,800 USD per surrogate. Initially believing that they take care of the ART process and take responsibility for our genetic material, it became quite unsettling when we found out the truth.

2. On departing India, an Australian couple who had visited SI earlier that week had to leave the original copy of their SM/IP contract behind while SI tracked down the SMs husband to sign the contract.  They had subsequently done this and when we visited the SI offices they asked us to take the original copy back to Australia with us and post it to the couple once back in OZ.  Apart from being appalled by the absolute lack of confidentiality, we strongly declined and explained how inappropriate that was.  What came as more of a shock was when the same situation arose 5 days later when we went to leave (regarding the SM husband not having signed), they proposed sending it home with another Australian couple.  Needless to say, the contract arrived a week later FedEx'd from Mumbai after some very honest words were had with Dr Ajja before leaving.  They advised that they had done us "a favour" by not charging us for the courier service.

3.  On our second attempt, we innocently asked when the FET would take place.  The SI team had advised that the surrogate had finished her menses (at around the 3rd of the month) so I thought it would be around the 14/15th of that month.  To our shock we were told that it was going to be around the 21-23rd from the trusty receptionist (again no contact or QA from the doctors at SI).  Obviously this seemed strange, so we pursued it further and were then lectured about how the doctors know what they're doing at that have delivered XXX number of babies.  After becoming exasperated dealing with the SI admin team (they essentially don't answer questions properly), we decided to leave it - until 8 days later when we were told that the scan had been done for our SM's lining and the transfer would occur on the 16th of that month.  We then asked to speak to the doctor as we were very confused by now; and they simply refused to speak with us.  The result came back negative and we heard nothing further from SI team until we approached them for our 3rd transfer - to which we received an invoice before any further details would be discussed.  Again, no further medical contact since signing up.

4.  On our third attempt we chose a 25 year old surrogate, that defied the theory of relativity and was a few months off 27 when her HCG test was e-mailed to us.  The age on her initial blood test results and the Surrogate Mother profiles all showed 25 years of age - which was one of the key reasons we chose here; apart from the fact she had been an a successful surrogate before.  On her hCG results her date of birth showed that she was nearly 27.  The error was explained by SI as a "technical error".  Happy for anyone to explain what that means?

5. In addition to the incorrect DOB on the HCG report, we also discovered a different surrogate name on the test result than the SM we chose.  This was also explained as a "technical error" to which their solution was to change the name on the report.

6.  Experienced surrogate fee - SMs that have been an SM before.  This was another exhausting issue that remains unresolved.  SI have information on their google site that provides the following in respect of experienced surrogates:

"They [Surrogate Mothers] normally prefer to offer services at $2500 - $3000 more than a fresh first time surrogate.  This is not included in the package price quoted".  

This cost is passed onto the IPs with the clear wording that this extra fee is determined by the surrogate - which I thought would then be payable to the surrogate.  When I received the SM/IP agreement, this was missing from the SM payment schedule and despite numerous e-mails to their legal team (23 emails in fact), they would only put the following clause into the contract: 

"2.4  In case of experienced surrogate, an additional amount of USD 3000 shall be made by the Intended Parents".

I asked this to be changed to...

2.4  In case of experienced surrogate, an additional amount of USD 3000 shall be made
by the Intended Parents wholly payable to the surrogate.  This is in addition to the amounts outlined in clause 2.3 [the normal payment schedule]"

They wouldn't change this nor would they explain where the additional money went.  They did however, feel compelled to explain how many babies they had delivered and how transparent they were.  Despite the condescending tone of the e-mail, it was clear that the SM would never see a cent of this payment "they preferred" to offer their services at. When I pushed again, they advised that they would be sending my query to the accounts department to answer??? WTF?

7.  On attempt number 4 we received our FET report, which despite being performed on 21st of January 2013, showed 17th December 2012 on the transfer report.   SI's explanation was "Because of new circular came for single father surrogacy, to avoid controversy our IVF lab put December's date instead of putting 22-January"  Alongside this questionable practice (which was done for SI's benefit and not ours) you'll see another inconsistency of the transfer date by 1 day - but I had estimated this was probably due to another one of those pesky "technical errors".

There are many other instances where their responses/practices/behaviours have been pretty unpalatable.  I always tried to rationalise this as "India".  But after 10 months interacting with SI, I can't accept that this is India.  In fact, I think India would be unfairly represented by the actions of SI.  Although cathartic as it is to finally write all of this, it saddens me that we missed our overall objective of having a child and had to learn the hard way.

So maybe we're being overly critical or maybe we're being entirely reasonable after shelling out thousands of dollars and pouring our heart and soul into this process.  All we have to show for this is a trip to India, a hard life lesson and 307 emails from SI sitting in a gmail account.  I realise others who have gone through SI may have had an entirely different experience and I am pleased for them.  But I pity anyone who chooses to go with SI, particularly if they have read details of our experience.

I strongly question SI's integrity as in nearly every transfer we did with them, there were questionable practices apparent. I dread to think how they actually treat their Surrogates. So we close this chapter on our lives and chalk it up to a very expensive, emotional and financial experience.  I do intend, however, on passing the details of their behaviour on to SI's accreditation body (ICMR) to ensure that these practices are stamped out.

We move forward now with some trepidation about where to from here.  As we mentioned in our post 12 Month wrap up India's window of opportunity appears to have closed for the time being, really leaving the USA or Thailand as further options.  The USA is out purely on financial grounds - which leaves Thailand.  We both have very fond memories of time spent in Thailand (we've travelled there 5 times) and I would love to experience the hospitality shown to us a tourists in undertaking ART and Surrogacy.  But this time, we will be asking a lot more questions and going in eyes wide open.

Goodbye SI, it's been well, overwhelmingly disappointing.  To those considering Indian clinics, I would avoid SI like the plague.  Yes they have a history of babies, but don't believe for a second that this has anything to do with their professional intervention or credentials.  It's wholly reliant on the outsource IVF lab, which they're happy to take the credit for the pregnancies the lab achieves, but no responsibility for any actions by the lab that don't result in pregnancy.  

Thanks for readership and we'll appear again in the near future.

GBLC.

Back on the horse

So a day or so after our last post, we finished digesting the news and accepted that this is just the way that it is.  Pregnancy is a very strange beast as you can do everything in your power to create the perfect circumstances (or at least appear to have them) and then nothing happens.

As someone who has always found that through diligence and hard work you get the result you want, I find the pregnancy and IVF process irreconcilable with this thinking.  So time to change my view from that to - it will happen when it's ready to happen.  Now for me, this is very difficult.  As a results driven person, putting things out into the universe (different people have different labels for it) or waiting for luck to occur really challenges me.  But low and behold, I accept this position and will go forth with a new found outlook.

The follow up from the clinic following our negative result was utterly atrocious.  So much so, a very terse and frank e-mail was sent through explaining our expectations from here on out.  We think this message has been received loud and clear, but time will tell how successful we've been.

That said, we are due to cycle again in around 3-4 weeks (date to be confirmed).  The surrogate is currently on BC and is due to come off the pill in around 4 days, before the priming meds start again.  We're planning on defrosting and going to blastocyst this time and hope to follow the success of Brent & Charlie's recent attempt.

So for now, we're relying on lady luck lining up her ducks in preparation of our early August transfer.

Thanks to all of those out there who have sent some very considerate messages and posted comments.  It has really shown the support from the community out there and we're thankful that you've taken the time to read about our story.

Until the next exciting installment, take care.

GBLC

Negative

What more can I say?  It seems what ever luck we had has run out and we received a negative yesterday.  It was disappointing to have to prompt SI on a number of occasions over the last 2 days to get our results.  Pretty unimpressed by their lack of responsiveness.

Thoroughly disappointed with our result is an understatement and I can't fathom how people who have gone through 4-5-6 attempts don't feel completely soul destroyed by the experience.

I really thought we had a really good chance given the success we had with our ED and 3 grade 1 embryos transferred.  Apparently not.

I'm going to keep this short as there is a lot I could say right now that might seem bitter and angry, so I will leave it there.  This is a reality of IVF and sometimes the punt doesn't pay off.

Good luck to the others out there who are cycling and we'll be back here again sometime in the future.

Cheers

GBLC

India - Day 5

The pressure to keep these posts exciting and interesting is becoming somewhat of a challenge.  After 5 days in Mumbai we're fast running out of things to do.  Today was another 'free' day, so we went shopping at R-City shopping centre in East Mumbai.  After a number of hours trying on clothes at exceptionally low prices with multiple purchases ensuing, we headed back to the hotel.

At breakfast this morning, we ran into the same couple who were at the clinic we mentioned in the blog on Day 3.  In an attempt to share knowledge and experiences, GB invited them for a drink this evening.  They were to meet their surrogate today and weren't sure of what time they would be back, but would be happy to have a drink.

We finally caught up at around 6.30pm and enjoyed a few peaceful beers and some nice food in the cavernous hotel cafe/bar. Over the course of four hours we shared our experiences of how we arrived at India, why we were undergoing surrogacy and what our hopes were for what SI would hopefully bring.  It's incredible how similar our experiences have been to date, including the blow by blow similarities of our Mumbai tours and the shops we were "invited" to check out.  Tomorrow they leave for Goa before returning to their home country.  Good luck guys, we hope it works out for you.

Tomorrow we are off to Lilavati Hospital to make another donation where the ED is due to have the egg retrieval done in the late morning.  This means, that by tomorrow afternoon the eggs (lots of them we hope) will be fertilised and hopefully our future baby will be growing.  Months of planning, research and effort will finally come to it's exciting crescendo.  While that is happening, we'll head over to SI's head office in the afternoon to meet our surrogate and sign some paperwork.

Then - apparently - we're done.  There's nothing more we can do and it is all over to SI, the surrogate and the IVF Lab.  

As much as we are glad we've come to Mumbai - it isn't a city for tourists and we're hoping to change our flights to leave on Sunday.  If we can't, we might head to Goa for a few days - rather than spending them in Mumbai. We'll see what happens.  

Either way, so far so good and here's hoping everything tomorrow goes fine.

India - Day 1

We're here.

After enduring 12 hours in the air (and 3 on the ground at Changi) we arrived in Mumbai safe, sound and without DVT.  Always a plus. The slightly chaotic, but surprisingly efficient transit through immigration, customs and baggage collection all went without incident which was a welcome experience given our sleep deprived state. On exiting airside, we were greeted by our hotel transfer and a mere 15 minutes later were being ushered to our room at the Courtyard Mumbai International by Jude - our personal check in consultant.  Oooh, posh!

The strong odour of diesel fumes in our room saw us change floors and rooms shortly after arriving - which gave us short time to pause, have a beer and celebrate our success at getting to this point in the surrogacy journey.  Soon enough we were tucked up in an extremely comfortable bed, air-conditioning cranked and drowsy with exhaustion.  Night, night.

GB at the beginning of Flight No. 2 SIN-BOM.

And it begins....

So today is the day that I have decided to start a blog of our experience going down the road of surrogacy in India.  I (and my partner) expect it be frustrating, expensive, exhilarating, stressful and emotional.  But above all life changing.

How did we get here...?  Cue the blurring reality, watery imagery, harp and clock winding backwards...

The journey really started around 9 months ago when a work colleague returned to work after being on parental leave for the previous 6 months.  As I had only commenced my role around 5 months earlier, I had never met this person, but had heard from a number of staff that he and his partner had recently had a baby through a surrogacy arrangement in India.  My partner and I had thought about being parents, although fleetingly, and knowing the various - often inconsistent - laws across Australia, we knew our only real option was to undertake a surrogacy arrangement.  We knew the US was out, purely because of cost.  However, at the time, we had no intention of becoming parents anytime soon so we could worry about that later.  But as I liked to be an informed decision maker, I thought it best to find out as much as possible in advance of any intention to become a parent.

I plucked the courage up to e-mail the unknown work colleague, asking if he would chat about his experience of going down the surrogacy route in India and answer some questions.  Thankfully, he was incredibly open to discussing his experiences and was more than happy to explain the process and answer any questions I might have.  I rose to the challenge and spent an hour practically interrogating him about prices, and how this worked and what happened in that situation.  The hour that I suggested we meet for barely scratched the surface and we soon caught up again to continue our discussion.  Over the next few months, evenings were spent trawling the internet for surrogacy information and e-mailing clinics, while regular coffee shop debriefs with my new found work friend (of course peppered with occasional work gossip), helped me build a strong knowledge base of what to expect from undertaking surrogacy in India.

By November of 2011, I had become a quasi expert on surrogacy, reading copious blogs and Wikipedia articles (the source of all truth) as well as IVF, egg stimulation and the various drugs required to pull off this sort of caper.  My partner and I attended the surrogacy conference in Melbourne run by Gay Dads Australia and Surrogacy Australia to know for sure what we were getting ourselves into.  By this stage, we had read a fair bit about potential changes to Indian laws as well as further intentions of the United Nations to develop a convention around surrogacy (possibly suggesting restrictions should be put in place), leading us to the conclusion that it was either now or possibly never.

After weeks of deliberation and a bunch of e-mails to clinics, we decided on Surrogacy India (SI) as our clinic choice.  As pricing between the 3 major players is fairly consistent these days, along with success rates and services offered, the final decider came down to the responsiveness of SI.  They quickly responded to all of our questions, and unlike one of the other clinics, didn't take offence or become exasperated with our detailed, but very relevant questions.  NB: To date, Dr Ajja has been supportive, responsive and considerate in all of our dealings and we're both looking forward to meeting him imminently.

So, in February 2012 we underwent the barrage of blood and swimmer tests and enrolled with SI.  Thankfully, both of us were good to go and for the first time in my life I finally knew my blood type!  As the weeks progressed we linked up with successful parents in the Ukraine to choose our egg donor (ED) and continued working with SI to choose a surrogate.  By the end of April we had our date for travel to Mumbai.

And....Cue the blurring reality, watery imagery, harp and clock winding forwards.

So here we are today, 10th May 2012.  Tonight/Tomorrow, we find out if our ED has passed all her hormone tests.  The ultrasound of her follicles appears very good according to the doctor and other blood infection screenings have all come back negative.  The surrogate in India has been chosen and the contracts are being prepared as we speak.

So on 4th June 2012 we fly out from Australia, heading to India to hopefully create a new life.

Stay tuned.....